A freelance writer from North Carolina (George Ellison, linked below), describes the traditional Cherokee version of the game. It's no-holds-barred. Literally:
I asked a Cherokee man standing alongside me, “What are the rules?”Lacrosse is an international sport, with lots of rules and a national governing body -- similar to Major League Baseball -- for men's and women's lacrosse. But it grows out of stickball.
“Can’t touch the ball with your hands,” he replied.
“That’s it?” I asked.
“Pretty much,” he replied.
US Lacrosse, the governing body, has a history of Native American lacrosse on its website. Thomas Vennum Jr., author of "American Indian Lacrosse: Little Brother of War," says:
Apart from its recreational function, lacrosse traditionally played a more serious role in Indian culture. Its origins are rooted in legend, and the game continues to be used for curative purposes and surrounded with ceremony. Game equipment and players are still ritually prepared by conjurers, and team selection and victory are often considered supernaturally controlled. In the past, lacrosse also served to vent aggression, and territorial disputes between tribes were sometimes settled with a game, although not always amicably.Vennum's short history on the US Lacross website is the best available.
Lacrosse is especially important to the Haudenosaunee, or Iroquois, people. The Iroquois Nationals are members of the Haudenosaunee nation who carry that nation's passports when they compete internationally. Their website explains that "lacrosse is a medicine sport" because the game "is a holistic process that binds communities and the nations of the Haudenosaunee together." On their website, they explain why lacrosse is more than just a game to them.
Some variants:
- Cherokee stickball is described and explained by George Ellison, who saw a stickball game at a reunion of Oklahoma and Eastern Band Cherokee.
- The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians explains the evolution of Choctaw stickball ... the game, called toli in the Choctaw language,is still played today.
- The Flying Rats are college students who play Choctaw stickball at the University of Georgia-Athens. Their website explains how to play, the history of the game and how they got their name from a Muscogee (and Cherokee) legend about a stickball game between the birds and animals. It also has photos of games between the UGA team and a Choctaw team in Mississippi, from whom they learned the sport.
Here are some questions to blog about. Post as answers to this item.
1. What roles do stickball/lacrosse play in modern Haudenosaunee, Cherokee and Choctaw culture? Has it changed over the years?
2. How does the organized sport of lacrosse differ from tradtional stickball as played by Cherokee and Choctaw Indians? How are they the same?
3. Is lacrosse an example of cultural appropriation? Is the non-Native team at UGA? Do the Flying Rats show respect for Choctaw tradition? If so, how?
25 comments:
Lacrosse is a cultural apropriation. the game was played to prctice hunting.
1. The game of Lacrosse has been a mainstay among the Haudenosaunee. The first purpose of the game is spiritual. It is a medicine game to be played upon request of any individual, clan, nation or the Confederacy itself. Iroquois Lacrosse is a holistic process that binds communities and the nations of the Haudenosaunee together. This is the reason that we say it was a gift to our people from the Creator. Lacrosse is a "medicine" game because it promotes the health and strength of the Nation, ensuring a continuance of our tradition and an understanding of our ways. Stickball has been a part of Choctaw life for hundreds of years. Opposing teams use handcrafted sticks or kabocca, and a woven leather ball, or towa. Each team tries to advance the ball down the field to the other team's goalpost using only their sticks, never touching or throwing the ball with their hands. Points are scored when a player hits the opposing team's goalpost with the ball.
2. The nature of the playing field was never strictly defined. The only boundaries were the two goalposts at either end of the playing area and these could be anywhere from 100 feet to five miles apart, as was the case in one game in the 19th century... There were no boundaries on the sides of the playing field, and the game's action simply followed the ball. Many times spectators were rousted from comfortable vantage points as the fleet-footed, fast-swinging...athletes scrambled after a far-flung pass..The rules, like the layout of the playing field, were ambiguous and limited to only three or four stipulations. Of primary importance was the restriction that no player was to touch the ball with his hands, using instead only his sticks to carry and throw the small ball. At no time were spectators allowed to interfere with the process. If they did, a penalty was assessed against their team... While players could tackle, block, or use any reasonable method to interfere with the other team's movement of the ball, there were implicit limits to acceptable violence. Stickball, as it is played today, remains a uniquely Choctaw sport and a symbol of tribal identity. So that boys will have a chance to develop their skills there are two age divisions for young people's teams. Occasionally, women's teams will take the field in exhibition matches.
3. Toli, also known as kapucha toli or simply stickball, is a traditional Native American game that has been played for at least 400 years. It has also been called the "little brother of war", as it, at one time, had been used to settle disputes between Native American groups. These games often involved hundreds of people per team, were played on fields that were several miles long and lasted from sunrise to sunset. Modern games are a little less epic, though they are still extremely important to the Choctaw. The official tournament amongst the Mississippi Choctaw is held in mid-July each year, uses teams of 30-40, has 15 minute quarters, and is played on a 100 yard field. Each Choctaw community on the reservation sends at least one team to compete and several thousand spectators attend the games. Variations of the game are played, or have been played, by many Southeastern Native American groups, including the Creek and the Cherokee. The modern game of Lacrosse is a direct descendant of Toli. They show respect, because they named their team after a myth about the game.
I feel that the roles that the game of Lacrosse, or also known as stickball onthe Haudenosaunee, Cherokee and Choctaw cultures haven't really changed to drastically over the years because lacrosse still teaches the young men playing the game different battle strategies to defend themselves when they are in the battlefield.
2. the organized sport of lacrosse isn't really different to the tradtional game of stickball played by the Cherokee and Choctaw Indians because in the game of stickball is played withThe equipment consists of a ball wrapped in cloth then laced with a leather cord, and a tall stick, stands at 20 feet tall.
3. Finally I feel that lacrosse is an example of cultural appropriation because it has carried on from generation to generation, and even non- Native teams such as the team at UGA makes it a cultural approriation, and I feel that they are showing great respect to the former players by kneeling before every match to honor them, and another way they honored them was by naming their ream the " Flying Rats" from from an old Creek myth about a Toli game between the "four-footed animals" and the birds.
1. Lacrosse and stickball served as a basis to show what members were stronger than the others by showing their athletic talents and strength. Over the years we have sort of converted certain aspects of these sports but they are pretty well the same games. They serve about thte same purpose by showing that one team or individual is better than the other.
2. Lacrosse today differs from the stickball that the indians played because today we have pads and many different rules that the indians didn't have back in their day. Also, we now pay people to play this sport. THe indians just used the game as a way to show who was more talented than the other, that was their pay or reward if you will.
3. I think lacrosse actually serves a whole different purpose now that we play the game for money. The indians strictly used this game to show off their talents, not as a way to earn a living. I don't think that we show respect to the indians for creating this game, but we very well should.
1. What roles do stickball/lacrosse play in modern Haudenosaunee, Cherokee and Choctaw culture? Has it changed over the years?
It served as a game for the gods and also served as a certain type medication to help ones health. I still think that when the sport is played in these certain cultures they are serving the same purpose as they did so long ago.
2. How does the organized sport of lacrosse differ from tradtional stickball as played by Cherokee and Choctaw Indians? How are they the same?
They are played with two different reasons. And they are the same in the way that it gets people to join together and have a fun time.
3. Is lacrosse an example of cultural appropriation? Is the non-Native team at UGA? Do the Flying Rats show respect for Choctaw tradition? If so, how?
Yes. Yes. Yes. The Flying Rats actually obtained there name from an old Creek myth from the Native American Legends.
Lacrosse was a part of life to Native Americans, such as baseball is to Americans. They took these games a bit more serious than we do today. They were not just pickup games on a sunny afternoon in an empty lot. Pre-game rituals were very similar to rituals associated with war. Players would decorate their bodies with paint and charcoal. Strict taboos were held on what players could eat before a game, and the medicine man performed rituals to prepare players and their sticks. The night before a game, players wore ceremonial costumes and held a special dance. Sacrifices were held, and sacred expressions were yelled to intimidate opponents.
On the day of the game, teams walked to the field and were slowed by constant rituals. Sometimes players would receive ceremonial scratches on their arms or torso.Before the game, every player was required to place a wager. Items such as handkerchiefs, knives, trinkets, horses, and even wives and children would be at stake. The bets would be displayed on a rack near the spectators, and items would be awarded proportionally to the winner of each quarter.
These games were used as ceremonial traditions and tribes would gain and lose possessions on these games.
The only thing similar between today's event and the traditional game is the fact that wagers and bets are placed on the outcome of the contest. Lacrosse today is governed and there are rules and suspensions and fines. The only rule in the traditional game was "no hands." Most sporting events today are played for entertainment and economic gain, while they were traditions used for healing and competition by Native Americans.
I believe the Flying Rats are being respectful, they play the game the traditional way and they derived their name from an old Creek myth about four-footed animals playing against the birds. To me, it is similar to using a traditional Native American name as a mascot. I believe as long as you don't have a drunk student dancing and screaming like a madman while representing the tribe, there is nothing wrong with it. The Flying Rats are respectful and are keeping the game alive. Just like mascots make the tribes they represent more popular and renowned.
Like you said the other day doc, "it prepared them for hunting." It's a team game. It teaches youngsters to work as a group to achieve a common goal. It carries the same ideals as hunting. You have to move in a pack to score. You have to move in a pack and work as a team to catch dinner. Same thing.
1. What roles do stickball/lacrosse play in modern Haudenosaunee, Cherokee and Choctaw culture? Has it changed over the years?
They serve as a tradition in a way. It used to be a very serious game. It is now more of a ceremony. In the past, they even used locrosse to determine who had certain rights.
Lacrosse was also a "medicine game" and a gift from the healer.
2. How does the organized sport of lacrosse differ from tradtional stickball as played by Cherokee and Choctaw Indians? How are they the same?
Well, that it is organized and it is simply a sport. The point of it is to play. Stick ball differed in that it was used to determine things like rights to land or areas.
3. Is lacrosse an example of cultural appropriation? Is the non-Native team at UGA? Do the Flying Rats show respect for Choctaw tradition? If so, how?
In some ways it does and in some says it doesn't. The Flying Rats' name shows tradition but for them it is a sport too, not a medicine healing ceremony or a gift from the God's.
1) In the Cherokee culture, stickball was sometimes called "Little War." It was based on the game of lacrosse. Some of the roles that stickball played in their culture was, that to the Indians this game was not just a game. It was a game that meant something for their pride. Everything was allowed during the game so there is barely any rules. Since there was no rules, everyone was in it for blood and guts.
Many of the roles have not changed over the years. Though the modern game does have a few more rules than before.
2)Lacrosse is different because it is a game that has more rules and a little more structure. There are actual referees and it is usually played on a field or stadium of some sort. Lacrosse and stickball is the same because they are played the same way. They have the same set of rules, one just has stricter rules than the other.
3) The Flying Rats do show respect for the Choctaw tradition. This is because they play their games at regional universities to increase the awareness for the traditional sport and its heritage.
1)The roles stickball/lacrosse in Native American culture today is just about like when they practice rain dances, and other spiritual dances. It is a pasttime of these 3 groups. It has only changed in the means of the rules, and more people play it.
2) They only differ being that the game has been modernized. Almost everything is the same being the general purpose of the game.
3)Yes i do believe lacrosse is an example of cultural appropriation. I believe they do show respect towards the choctaw nation by playing them. They are respecting it by actually playing the game itself.
The Haudenosaunee say lacrosse was a gift to their people from the Creator. The purpose of the game is spiritual, it is a medicine game. It binds communities together. It is a medicine game because it helps the health and strength of the Nation. The competing teams are divided up by the clans of each nation. Lacrosse can be played at the request of any individual. The game requires discipline and special instructions. Lacrosse is usually played by men. It requires cooperation, fair play, discipline, stamina, pride and good health.
Toli is a traditional Native American stickball game. Toli was used to settle disputes between groups. Hundreds of people were on each team and the game could last all day. Toli is still played today by the Choctaw. The UGA Flying Rats is the only Toli team that is non-Native American. They practice twice weekly and play against Choctaw teams.
The earliest account of stickball was around 1729. Modern day stick ball has more rules and regulations then stickball had back then. The rules are printed and given to all players before each game. It is played in four 15 minute quarters. They still score points by hitting a post. They also look different. In the 20th century players wore handmade uniforms. They were pants hemmed just below the knee and an open-necked pullover shirt. The uniforms were made of community colors. By the 1970’s the uniforms were gym shorts.
1. Lacrosse is a symbol of these Native American tribes' culture. It is a way for their communities to come together and compete with or against one another.
2. I would say that stickball and Lacrosse are pretty different sports. The concept of the game, to get the ball in the opposing team's goal, is the same. However, while lacrosse is a physical sport in no way does compare to the physicality of stickball. Lacrosse has several rules while stickball's only rule is that you can't pick the ball up with your hands. Today in lacrosse all athletes are in pads to prevent injuries, no pads are used in stickball even today.
3. I believe that the example of the white students at the University of Georia playing stickball is culurally appropriate. I don't see any way that they are disrespectful to the Native American culture by simply playing their game.
1. the roles of the game were to serve as medication to help the athletes health. It was called a "medicine" game.this game was very sacred to them and they took it very serious. there were many pregame rituals and routines that took place.
2. The main difference between the games is just the use of different equipment. today it is modernized and we have much more gear.
3. i think that it is a cultural apropriation becuase members today are showing a great deal of respect for the game and the players who played before their time. the game keeps getting passed down .
The native were using lacrosse as practice for hunting and it developed into a game that was played among individuals. Also known as stickball players more a ball up and down playing fields to the other opponets goal or net. The game eventually evolved into lacrosse
2. The deference was that there was no regulation size playing field. There were no boundaries. Other than that there were not many differences in the game of stickball as compared to lacrosse. its is still just a stick with some leather cord, but a little bit more hitech. The sticks today are also shorter.
3. I believe that lacrosse is an example of cultural appropriation we still play the game for fun to show of talents just like the indians did. However now it is just a game and not a way of life.
1. It is a way for them to keep their tribal identity. Stickball was also used for socializing. The views have not changed much over the years, although there are a few more rules and regulations involved today.
2. I would say Lacrosse is a more modern and advanced version of stickball, which is what the Indians played. Yet it still has the same concept that stickball has.
3. Yes Lacrosse does involve cultural appropration. The Indians started off playing stickball and then stickball then advanced into the modern day sport of Lacrosse. And yes the Flying Rats do show respect for the Choctaw, they are named after a Creek myth from the native Americans.
1) i think that lacrosse was basically a game that helped the tribe become closer. They used it for a spiritual purpose, and for practicing hunting.
2)There isn't really a big difference. They both have the same idea of how to score and use the same equipment.
3) I think that it is an example of appropriation because they use it for the love of the game. They used it for bonding time and to pass on the tradition from generation to generation
Lacrosse and stickball were often played to show talents and sometimes to settle disputes. The game was also played for the athletes health and was called a Medicine game. Many time tribes would settle disputed over land by competing.
The games were different becasue of the different equipment and gear used in the game. One main difference is the rules, in stickball there is one rule alone. Do not touch the ball with your hands.
I do believe that this is an example of cultural appropriation. The game has been passed down and the originators are still given the respect that they deserve
1. What roles do stickball/lacrosse play in modern Haudenosaunee, Cherokee and Choctaw culture? Has it changed over the years?
It serves as a game that teaches many discipline and special instruction. It can also be seen as a "medicine" game which promotes continued strength and health of a nation. The game focuses on cultural aspects which carry over to the field they play on and to the communities they live in. I think that the game has changed since its earlier days but still the background and nature of the game are the same. The game has likely evolved into a game where its not about played the game for good fun but to win.
2. How does the organized sport of lacrosse differ from tradtional stickball as played by Cherokee and Choctaw Indians? How are they the same?
The game is different mostly because of the cultural differences between the games. Stickball has many cultural ties to the way its played and its origin. I would say the Lacrosse is more of a sport that is strictly ruled and doesnt allow for the more free spirited ways of stickball. Also the equiptment for the games is different. The games are very similar in the sense that the teams play to win the game and there is some sort of importance on winning. I would say that modern day lacrosse places much more of an emphasis on winning though.
3. Is lacrosse an example of cultural appropriation? Is the non-Native team at UGA? Do the Flying Rats show respect for Choctaw tradition? If so, how?
Yes I believe that these ar eboth cultural appopriate. The Flying Rats even based their team name on the origins and stories of the game. As long as the game is still being played in a respectful matter not to disgrace the people whom created it, it is appropriate.
1. Lacrosse plays many roles in native amercian culture mostly by spirtual. Iroquois who have their own national team are very serious about the game lacrosse. These games have definatly changed over the years in many ways. The sport is a lot more widely played and now more people know about it. Many colleges in America that play lacrosse have no affiliation with native americans.
2. The stick sizes that are played with range in size depending on the culture. Some are two and a half feet long whereas great lakes players use a three foot stick. Also the end of the stick is quite differnt because of the size of the spoon shaped tip. Although they differ in some of there sizes of gear. Most of the rules were kept the same such as no touching the ball with your hands.
3. Yes, these cultures look up to these games and what they stand for. To them these arent just games anymore it's a way of life to be playing these games or even to be watching them played. These tribes take a serious approach to stickball games that is unheard of to me. I'am very serious about football and I love the game but taking a spirtual look at it is a little overbroad to me. The thing I like most about this sport is that everyone shows respect win or lose and thats something you don't see all the time in sports. This is huge for the fact that they are representing and playing against very serious competentors.
1. It was played in a spiritual way. Known as a "medicine game."
2. Lacrosse and stickball may be played almost the same way but now there are rules and players are more protected by pads and equipment is different too.
3. I think Lacrosse is more for enjoyment and fun instead of for spiritual reasons. Both stickball and lacrosse bring people together to have a good time.
The game Lacrosse first was played for spiritual reasons. Haudenosauneet would request for the medicine game to be played for health and strength of one's Nation. Stickball has been a tradtionation to Choctaw for over a hundreds years.
Today Lacrosse differs from the stickball because today we have sport equitment for the game and we also have rules. When the Indians use to play back in their time they did not have rules or pads to the just could not use thier hands. Now when people play the game they play it as a sport non like the Indains who played the game to show off their talented or for spiritual reasons.
Yes, Lacrosse does involve cultural appropriation. The Indians were the ones who originated the game stickball the game later advanced into the modern day sport of to which is today know as lacrosse. Yes, I do think that the name Flying Rats shows respect for the Choctaw tribe.
1. What roles do stickball/lacrosse play in modern Haudenosaunee, Cherokee and Choctaw culture? Has it changed over the years?
It is a medicine game that I think was used as a way of socialization between the tribe. I think that this is a way for the them to get together as a group and communicate with one another. I do not think that it has changed to much for the years. I think that it still has the same meaning now as it did then.
2. How does the organized sport of lacrosse differ from tradtional stickball as played by Cherokee and Choctaw Indians? How are they the same?
I think that both of these games have the same meaning to them. The only thing that i think would be different is that lacrosse seems a little more up to date then stickball.
3. Is lacrosse an example of cultural appropriation? Is the non-Native team at UGA? Do the Flying Rats show respect for Choctaw tradition? If so, how?
I do think that lacrosse is an example of cultueral appropriation. I think that some show a since of respect to those who have played in the past and who play now, but i do not know if they show the amount of respect that they actually deserve though. I do feel that the game has the same overall idea today and as it is passed one through the years.
lacrosse and stickball pretty much showed who had the more talent with athletics. The indians didnt have the rules we have today, but it is not that much different. I think the game today is considered to have a different purpose because now we have teams that actually play for money. I do believe it is a cultureal aprpriation because the whoever plays it today, shows respect that it was carried on from generation to generation.
After watching Crooked Arrows I became very interested in stickball and its origins. The movie showed me that stickball was all about allowing the players to gain confidence in themselves and their teammates. It was a movie based on a true story and I can see why stickball was played. The Cherokees did not do anything on their own, they worked together to keep their tribe strong; just as in stickball the teammates must work together in order to keep their team strong.
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